In today’s C “seminar” Dr. Spreen will weigh in on the pros and cons of the different types of vitamin C (along with a comparison to the varieties of vitamin E), and then give us his opinion about one doctor’s recommendation to take vitamin C intravenously.
Meanwhile, as you are already aware, Dr. Spreen advocates much more than just a bump up from the current RDAs for most supplements, especially vitamin C. When he addressed this in a recent e-Alert (“C Saw” 5/28/03), it brought this comment and question from an HSI member named Nathan:
“You recommend taking large doses of vitamins, including vitamin C, just to make sure that enough is absorbed. I believe the vitamin C you use is ascorbic acid. I’ve read that vitamin C is actually a complex of many things, abscorbic acid being just one of them. It also said that ascorbic acid when taken alone actually causes damage in the body and so only the whole complex should be taken. Something similar was said about vitamin E. What are you thoughts on this?”
Here’s Dr. Spreen’s response to Nathan’s e-mail:
“Vitamin C does exist in different forms – water soluble ascorbic acid and a multitude of ascorbates (i.e., salt forms in combination with elements like sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium), along with fat soluble forms like ascorbyl palmitate, so vitamin C is not just one thing. There’s no question (in my mind, anyway) that vitamin C is far more potent when ingested in its natural state, which would complex it with phytonutrients called bioflavonoids (as in citrus fruits for example). Like anything else, rarely is a single compound by itself the best way to achieve optimal nutrient status.
“However, I’m not aware of actual damage being caused by the use of (for example) pure ascorbic acid. Robert Cathcart, MD, Fred Klenner, MD, Linus Pauling, PhD, Archibald Kalakerinos, MD, and many others have done amazing things using vitamin C intravenously in huge doses (even up to 100 grams [100,000 milligrams] over a few hours’ time). Such efforts have shown benefit against SIDS, snake bite, typhoid, cancer and other serious situations. (Note: One ‘sort of’ exception might be the early efforts of Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron, a Scottish surgeon, using immense doses of vitamin C on some highly advanced cancer patients. When some died even earlier than expected, autopsies found that the vitamin C had killed cancer cells so rapidly that the tumor masses tended to ‘die’ and crumble in on themselves, causing blockages that killed the patient.)”
“Concerning vitamin E, however, things are a bit different. Bear in mind that synthetic vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is the identical molecule to what’s naturally made in nature, only differing in its lack of accompanying phytonutrients. Synthetic vitamin E, on the other hand, is not the same as its natural counterpart. Chemically it is dl-alpha tocopherol (a mixture of ‘d’ forms and ‘l’ forms), the significant difference being that little ‘l’ in the beginning. This is a molecule shape that the body is not designed to handle, whereas the ‘d’ form alone is the one the body is able to use. It is important (again in my opinion) to use the ‘dl’ form only topically, going with the natural stuff for oral use.
“Unfortunately, for vitamin E it gets even a bit more complicated. A ‘natural’ form of alpha tocopherol still presents a problem because there are three other (known) fractions of vitamin E- beta, delta and gamma. Use of the alpha form alone (all that was available years ago) has been shown to lower the body’s levels of the other three. Therefore, I only recommend the use of what’s called ‘mixed tocopherols,’ which contains all the fractions in their natural state. To ice the cake I also like to add some selenium, which is known to accompany vitamin E as a synergist in many reactions (and adds positive effects in its own right).
“Therefore, when you get down to it, natural state is always better, assuming you can get adequate amounts to accomplish the job you’re dealing with.”
As you may recall from an e-Alert I sent you last winter (“Over the Teeth, Past the Gums” 2/5/03), Dr. Spreen recommended a daily dose of 400 IU (international units) for vitamin E, and 200 mcg of selenium for general antioxidant protection. And while it is possible to get too much selenium, a range of 220-400 mcg daily is quite safe.
“We saw a naturopathic doctor who promotes giving vitamin C in high dose intravenously. He says that much more is effectively absorbed since all the dosage is in the bloodstream. Is this safe and does he have a point?”
And here’s Dr. Spreen’s take on delivering C by injection:
“Sometimes doses are needed that go beyond the intestinal tract’s ability to absorb. There is a point called ‘bowel tolerance’ at which no further ingested doses of vitamin C are useful (other than to flush out the intestinal tract, since bowel tolerance levels cause diarrhea). Bypassing this route by using intravenous access can permit far higher absorption of vitamin C. Depending on the problem, such a technique can be very useful.
“Your doc has a point, in my opinion. If you’re concerned be sure to ask him what he’s specifically trying to treat and what dose he feels is necessary. That way both sides know what’s going on and he can allay your fears by being able to explain his method.”
More to come?
Will these Qs and As lead to more questions about C (and E and selenium and other supplements)? No doubt they will. By the time we’re finished wringing every last detail out of Dr. Spreen, we’ll ALL be experts on vitamin C.
To Your Good Health,Jenny Thompson
Health Sciences Institute
